My guest this week is the Rev. Lisa Schubert Nowling, an ordained minister in the United Methodist Church. I learned of Lisa and her work through the Indiana University alumni network, as she and I are both IU grads. In this episode we talk about the life of a pastor, which is very familiar to me since I was a preacher’s kid (both of my parents were ordained).

We also talked a lot about what it means to have a “calling,” and how to find yours. Other topics of discussion included:

• What led Lisa to become a minister
• The difference between being religious and being spiritual
• Listening for the call to one’s vocation
• The difference between vocation and career
• The best parts for Lisa of being a pastor
• What it means to be a follower of Jesus Christ
• The mission of Lisa’s church and how she understands it
• Rev. John Wesley’s three simple rules: Do No Harm; Do Good; Stay in Love With God
• Righting the wrongs of the church toward the marginalized
• The Jewish concept of Tikkun Olam
• What it means to be “holy”
• Singer/songwriter Rich Mullins
• The love of God as different from our human understanding of love
• The difference between “heart knowledge” and “head knowledge” of God
• My own epiphany about the nature of God’s love
• Reasons for the high burnout rate among pastors
• The imperative of self-care and honoring the principle of the Sabbath
• The challenge of attracting young people to the church
• How to measure the fruitfulness of a church
• What Christians can learn from other faith traditions
• How to find one’s vocational calling
• Parker Palmer’s book Let Your Life Speak (affiliate link)
• How a calling might shift across one’s lifetime
• The intersection between the spirit within us and the spirit outside of us

Rev. Lisa Schubert Nowling is Lead Pastor at the First United Methodist Church in Bloomington, IN. She completed her bachelor’s degree at Indiana University in Bloomington and continued her education at Duke Divinity School. Lisa has served churches in urban, small-town and campus settings, and is passionate about sharing the love of Jesus with all people through worship, service, generosity, and social advocacy. She and her husband have a three-year-old daughter and enjoy traveling, being outdoors, and cheering on their favorite sports teams, especially the Hoosiers.