My guest this week is Dr. Joel Minden, who’s been on the podcast twice before (check out episode 21 and episode 87). I always enjoy talking with Joel, who has such a wealth of knowledge about treating anxiety and depression. We thought together again about the most effective way to approach these conditions, especially the question of how much we try to change our emotions versus making peace with them, and focusing on doing what’s important to us.

As always, Joel does a really nice job at striking a compassionate balance between understanding the difficulty in doing things that are important to us when we’re struggling, while also encouraging us not to make emotions the enemy or let them define what we can and can’t do. I’ll look forward to your thoughts about this conversation.

Topics that Joel and I explored included:

• My guest’s experience during COVID
• The rise in depression recently, secondary to COVID-related loss and setbacks
• Addressing thoughts and behaviors in CBT for depression
• Behavioral activation for depression, to provide experiences of pleasure and mastery
• The potential advantages in focusing on behavior vs. thoughts
• The importance of starting small in behavior therapy for depression
• The leap of faith that’s often required to get started in therapy
• The assumptions that being depressed means a person “must need medication”
• Joel’s use of CBT principles for himself
• Trying to get rid of symptoms vs. determining to live regardless of how we feel
• Embracing difficult emotions as part of life
• The role of values in behavioral activation for depression
• Realizing we can think or feel one way, and behave another way
• Joel’s Psychology Today post on “The 5 Most Useful Responses to Anxiety”
• Joel’s “STUF” acronym for managing difficult emotions
• Dealing with vague, free-floating anxiety
• Effective ways to manage excessive stress, vs. anxiety
• How my guest manages stress and finds ease, especially through setting boundaries

Joel Minden, PhD, is a licensed clinical psychologist, author of Show Your Anxiety Who’s Boss (affiliate link), and Director of the Chico Center for Cognitive Behavior Therapy.

He is also a diplomate of The Academy of Cognitive and Behavioral Therapies, and adjunct professor in the Department of Psychology at California State University, Chico.

Connect with Joel online on Twitter and at his CBT Chico Facebook page.