My guest this week is Dr. Jason Ong, who specializes in the treatment of sleep disorders. I’ve wanted to have Jason on the podcast for a while now because he’s done some really pioneering work in applying mindfulness to the treatment of insomnia. If you struggle with getting sound sleep sometimes, which so many of us do, you’ll probably find a lot here that’s really helpful.  And if you’ve tried unsuccessfully to meditate in order to fall asleep, you’ll definitely want to hear what Jason has to say. 

Topics we dive into in this episode include:

• Jason’s integration of mindfulness and cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia (CBT-I)
• The problem with using more effort to try to sleep better
• The effectiveness of mindfulness-based therapy for insomnia (MBTI), which is based on mindfulness-based stress reduction (MBSR)
• The mechanisms that might drive the benefits of MBTI 
• The problem with spending too much time in bed
• The importance of making MBTI patient-driven
• The interpersonal relationship, and trust, in insomnia treatment
• Empowering people to treat their sleep problems themselves
• The importance of a human connection in insomnia treatment
• Whether meditation alone helps with insomnia
• Not trying to “meditate yourself to sleep”
• Beginner’s mind in the context of insomnia treatment
• The role of stress management in treating insomnia
• The “two darts” concept from Buddhism—one that comes at us from the outside, and one we throw at ourselves
• Jason’s meta-cognitive model for how we relate to our thoughts
• The cognitive bias toward sleep that’s often present in those struggling with insomnia
• What Jason himself does at night when he’s struggling to sleep
• Using sleepiness as a cue for whether to go to bed
• The most importance principles for good sleep
  • Awareness of sleepiness
  • A consistent wake-up time
• The effectiveness of insomnia treatment apps, without a therapist
• Stepped-care models of insomnia treatment
• The problem of pre-sleep arousal in insomnia

Jason Ong, PhD, is an associate professor in the department of neurology at Northwestern University, Feinberg School of Medicine. He completed his PhD at Virginia Commonwealth University, and a fellowship in behavioral sleep medicine at Stanford.

Jason is the author of Mindfulness-Based Therapy for Insomnia (affiliate link); his primary research interest is non-drug treatments for sleep disorders, including CBT and mindfulness meditation.

He also has a clinical practice where he offers CBT for insomnia and provides psychosocial support for patients with narcolepsy.

You can learn more about Jason’s research at his lab website.

Please consider sharing this episode with anyone you know who’s struggling with sleep.